Overvaluing women

David Collard says:

January 23, 2013 at 6:44 pm

Anon, that is interesting. I have to be somewhere soon myself, but let me just say this.

My wife admitted recently to having been childish when I met and married her. She was too, and she still is a bit. I find it quite cute. Many men find this neotenous mental tendency in women cute. Very few men will really engage with women on the Internet or in real life on this point because they find it cute, and they don’t want to hurt women’s feelings. Even on the Internet. Women get treated with kid gloves, especially it seems to me, American women. I am one of the rare men that actually sometimes doesn’t. But most men still do.

On alpha males an psychopathy, I think you may be right. And you are clearly an expert. I, on the other hand, have a touch of the condition myself. And it works for me, in the limited context of my marriage. I sometimes think that only a man with a touch of sociopathy could cope with the modern woman and her histrionics.

Once I stopped expecting my wife to be mature all the time and make sense, I had a much happier marriage. Once I stopped trying to be a Nice Guy, that helped too. I have known VERY FEW women in real life who behave rationally most of the time, except at work, where most women do make an effort not to be too silly. But in real life, forget about it.

The number one thing I have a problem with in the Manosphere is the starry-eyed way men still think about women. They can think cold about politics, technology, even sport; but let a woman enter the picture, and they lose their objectivity completely. It mystifies me. Men massively overvalue women and give them credit for sensitivity and intelligence they rarely possess. I have known a few women who “think like men”, but the number is vanishingly small, so much as to be practically non-existent. I can only conclude, like Schopenhauer, that men are bewitched by our hormones to overvalue women.

Dealing with sexual past

deti says:

January 23, 2013 at 1:39 pm

Oh. How does Anon’s wife deal with her sexual past so it doesn’t affect her marriage.

1. She needs to come to faith. She needs to submit to her husband. Anon will need to remind her that she is to submit to him in all things.

2. No more Facebook, no more attention whoring. If she’s in touch with her old playmates or hanging out at old playgrounds, it stops now.

3. Any addictions? Deal with them.

4. She needs to lose weight. She needs to diet and exercise.

5. If her job is so crappy that she hates it, she needs to quit. Doesn’t sound like Anon and she need the money.

6. Intensive therapy. Get all her shit out on the table to a counselor, pastor or some other qualified person, with her husband there to hear it all. Names. Dates. Places. Who did she have sex with and what kind of sex was it. Abortions. Miscarriages. Rapes. Kinky sex. Sex work, if she’s ever done it (stripping, pr0n, prostitution) All of it, every last bit. She needs to own it all and take full responsibility for it. She needs to humble herself and sincerely ask her husband’s forgiveness.

7. She needs to accept that she might have periods of time, perhaps extended periods of time, where she just doesn’t feel attracted to Anon. Tough shit. She needs to have good sex with him, often and frequently, even when she doesn’t feel like it and even when she doesn’t feel attracted to him. This is a problem that SHE created. It is a problem that SHE will have to minimize so that its effects on Anon are minimal and so it does not jeopardize their marriage. She married Anon for better or for worse. This is the “for worse” part, dearie. She will have to put on her big girl britches, suck it up and DEAL. WITH. IT.

8. Full medical workup to make sure there aren’t organic problems.

 

1. Pray.
2. Avoid situations where you are likely to be exposed to infidelity risks.
3. Avoid situations where you will have to submit to alpha men other than your husband. For example, Anon’s wife probably shouldn’t take a job working in a law firm around a bunch of high powered lawyers.
4. Do not attend weddings, funerals or high school reunions alone, especially if you must travel out of state to do so.
5. No contact whatsoever with old BFs or old slut friends.
6. Frequent, regular sex. Do not refuse him for any reason other than deathbed illness or monthly cycle.

Saving a marriage

deti says:

January 23, 2013 at 10:49 am

Anon:

You’ve been getting some stellar advice here from some of the manosphere’s very best. If you don’t mind I’ll offer my two cents.

How you proceed from here will depend on many things: your religious convictions, finances, children (how many and their ages), living arrangements, extended family, sexual wants and needs, the current dynamics of your relationship, physical health, and a host of other factors you know much better than we do. Let me amplify what Brendan said, which is that if you were snowed because you didn’t know of the red pill, there’s not much that can be done about that now. You must accept the past as it is because it cannot be changed now, and focus on the present and near future.

What you’re going through right now is common. You’re disillusioned, hurt, pissed off, and bewildered. All these red flags — how could I have missed them? I’m an educated guy, smart, and savvy. The answer is simply that we live in a society that puts primacy on female wants, needs and desires, and subordinates those of the male. You were conditioned to do this from a very young age, I suspect; and also to no small degree encouraged in this by your education and your chosen field. You need to accept that this is the way it is, and move on from there.

The next order of business I think is to decide what you will absolutely NOT do. For some men that is divorce. Decide in your own mind whether you are willing to end your marriage by your own hand and proceed accordingly. In today’s day and age, however, you might not have a choice in the matter; and so it would behoove you to consult a divorce attorney on the down low simply to explore how a divorce would shake out money wise, property wise and child support wise.

Since you’re a psychologist, it’s your job to figure out what people are thinking and what motivates them based on their actions. It’s also your nature I would guess to want to “talk things through” and you probably initiate a lot of that. You’ll have to resist the temptation to deal with your wife as a patient, resist the urge to psychoanalyze her.

Brendan gave you good advice to start making changes slowly. One way to start doing this is simply to stop doing the beta comfort things that we all know in the manosphere really kill attraction. Let me suggest:

1. Stop doing the housework, and let her know she will be expected to get those things done herself since she is a SAHM. Let her know what housework you will do (usually mowing the lawn and heavy lifting and repair of electrical and plumbing) and simply don’t do the rest.

2. Stop talking about stuff you read in the manosphere on these blogs. She doesn’t understand it, she’ll personalize it too much, and it is threatening to her.

3. Stop talking about negative feelings. Do not display to her anger, fear, despair, frustration or other such things. Don’t talk about work.

4. Stop talking so much in general. Economy of words is a good thing. There’s a reason women were drawn to the “strong silent type”.

5. Detach from her emotionally. Too many men use wives as confidants and de facto therapists. Don’t. She cannot be your emotional support. She just can’t.

6. If you need therapy yourself, get it. If you need to talk to a man, find a man you can talk to about these things.

7. Do not take any relationship advice from women, including women who post and/or comment here. Even knowledgeable women cannot advise men on how to deal with women in a romantic, marital or sexual relationship, mostly because women have a much, much harder time being objective.

After you have done some of this, you need to address her physical attractiveness and your need for sex. Men need sex. You need to start by addressing her past sexual history and how it affects her and affects your marital relationship now. I don’t know the full extent of that, but you need to get to the bottom of it, and you need to address it head on. Expect her to lie about it. You’ll probably never get the full truth. There is little that can be done about that now, other than to expect answers. What you need to know at this point is that she’s a former carouseler with a sexual history before you. Whether you like it or not, it is still affecting her and probably always will to some extent, though that can be reduced if she wants that. The way to start with this might be to expect sex from her, expect enthusiastic sex, and decline bad sex or “obligation” sex.

You will need to draw some firm lines on what you want and expect from your marriage. I suspect your wife has been allowed to “get away” with a lot during your marriage, and eventually that will need to be sharply curtailed.

If you suspect adultery, you need to get to the bottom of it right away. The most important thing now is to decide AHEAD OF TIME what you will do about it she confesses adultery or you discover it. You also should put aside any notions that your wife isn’t capable of cheating on you. She is. All women are. I still believe this: right man, right time, right circumstances, low risk of detection, many women will cheat. Decide now how you’ll address it if it happens.

If at any time you suspect she is making moves toward leaving, separation or divorce, get to a divorce attorney right away, put him/her on retainer, and find out what your rights will be. Get your important papers and finances in order. Withdraw a couple of thousand dollars cash from the bank and keep it in a safe place known only to you. Tell her that if she is leaving the marriage, that you will not voluntarily leave the house. Start journaling your activities and hers, and keep the journal in a safe place known only to you. Get a “go bag” with toiletries, clothes and copies of important papers together, and keep it in a safe place known only to you (not your house). And prepare for war while hoping for peace.

Finally: you can only control yourself. You can’t control how she will react or respond. It might work. It might not. She has the power to blow up your marriage at any time. Sorry, but that’s how it is. You need to address how you will react and respond, and control it accordingly.

Now get thee to Athol Kay’s place.

I wish you good luck, and prayers.

Virtues

DavidVS says:

January 23, 2013 at 12:42 am

A. Sexually Attractive Virtues

1. We knows how to show respect to each other
2. She appreciates my role as momentum-provider during conversations and events
3. She laughs when I tease her in all three types of teasing
3a. …when I respond to nagging with “agree and exaggerate”
3b … at my lame attempts at playful innuendo
3c … at my silly obvious lies told just to make her laugh
4. She laughs when we cuddle in bed and say silly things
5. She swing dances with me
6. We both think the other person is sexy and treat them that way
7. We collect romantic traditions as togetherness rituals, such as kissing when the car odometer is a palindrome, or creating codes for different finger-touches when holding hands
8. We both enjoy date nights and see the importance of practicing dating (“practice” meaning both “doing that often” and “getting even better at that”)
9. We have a lot of physical and emotional intimacy and exclusivity; we are “faithful” not only physically but in being each other’s closest confidant and deepest problem-solver
10. She encourages my role as head of the family and leader in religious practices and teaching
11. She believes she is sexy enough to make me happy, and does not mind or feel threateed if I appreciate the beauty of other women
12. We believe we are ideal matches for each other
13. We forgive even each others’ big mistakes and never bring them up again
14. Neither of us create or bring drama into our lives or home

B. Comforting Virtues

1. We knows how to show love to each other
2. Our God-given vocations are compatible and complimentary
3. She likes cooking, which I do not
4. We can both track expenses and follow and budget
5. She can be emotional, but also can turn on her logical problem-solving mode at a moment’s notice
6. She pays attention to wearing flattering clothes [I think this is “alpha” on her list but “beta” on mine — she appreciates how I look now whereas I am grateful she values maintaining her appearance long term]
7. We bring complaints to each other promptly, do not hold secret grudges, and never demean the other in public
8. We know not to disagree in front of the kids, and nearly always can avoid disagreeing in public
9. She never excuses her behavior with cliches about “women get to change their mind” or “women are mysterious”
10. We have matching values and priorities
11. We both give ourselves to God, who then gives us back to each other
12. We both have hobbies and respect the other person’s hobbies
13. We both allow the other to have evenings out with friends
14. When we delegate household chores she does not try to micromanage my share
15. We encourages our own efforts at self-improvement, and does not try adding a spouse’s agenda for “self”-improvement
16. We have compatible temperaments (a home that has peace, quiet, and calm; outings to provide challenge, noise, or excitement)

Women and sexual immorality

Professor Ashur says:

January 22, 2013 at 6:55 pm

Love and gratitude are two great equalizers when it comes to evening out the unequal distribution of anything.

On the old family farm, the children had full meals and clothes, even though it would be years until they were old enough to produce at the level they consume.

But love for their children made it possible for the parents not to resent their children’s lower output of work.

For a truly loving and grateful wife and mother of my children, I would have been more than happy to get the “short end of the stick”.

The knowledge that one’s sacrifice is to a noble helps the gap be much smaller in a man’s mind.

But, when a woman spends her inheritance of youth and beauty on other men, and possible has a child by that man, she should be extremely grateful if a man is willing to put out his sacrifice given that he is only receiving part of what was due him.

She cannot ever give to him what she has given away to those other men. Despite her bravado in saying things like “who are you to judge me”, and “you are an unforgiving jerk”, she knows deep down that she has cheated him out of what a wife normally owes her husband.

In exchange for caring for her when she is old, and dealing with her eventual loss of physical attractiveness, he should at least have access to it when it is in the full flower of youth, rather than getting it second-hand, after she has been sampled and dumped by various “boyfriends” and cheap flings.

The cheap flings are the worst damnation against a woman’s marriageability than anything. One a woman has a cheap sexual fling, she is basically a whore, in that she exchanged sex for thrills, no different than doing it for money, really.

Complicating this is that the church is DETERMINED WITH EVERY MOLECULE OF ITS EXISTENCE to avoid women having to repent of their sexual immorality. The church DEMANDS that it be assigned to the ‘predatory’ men who “tricked” the precious daughter of God into a mistake.

This unwillingness to repent of her whoring is the biggest reason that Christian women with N>0 can’t be marriage material. They must repent of this, and realize that they have defrauded their husband.

SAHM

deti says:

January 22, 2013 at 12:29 pm

Wives, if you’re going to have kids and want to be an SAHM, be a true helpmeet.

1. Be capable. Learn to cook.
2. Pick up the house. Your husband would like a pleasant place to come home to.
3. Just don’t complain about things. I don’t mind being told about things, issues and problems; but please do so in a non-nagging, non-bitchy manner.
4. You will need to do 90%+ of the housework. I am not here to do it and I cannot do it. I am doing 100% of the money-earning, so it’s fair to expect you to do that much of the housework. I have to fix things and do major heavy lifting when I get home. You know better what needs to be done and how to do it.
5. Be trustworthy. If you say you are going to do certain things, please get them done. If you cannot, let me know. I need to be able to leave the house and know that I am leaving things in the care of a person I can trust to manage things without constant supervision, micromanagement, and over-the-shoulder-looking. I need to be able to work and earn money without constant concern over what is happening at home.
6. If you are an SAHM, you do not need a maid or a part time housekeeper. You can handle it yourself. What you cannot handle (which should be less than 10% of the work), I will do.
7. Hold up your end of the bargain, without complaining. this is what you signed up for.

Being emotionally detached

Sarah’s Daughter says:

January 9, 2013 at 10:15 pm

@jsr
I have come to a similar point with my wife. Her rebellion is not blatant or obvious, but a subtle and beneath the surface one that rises up on occasion.

What did he do that was emotionally detached? Were any of those detachment actions contrary to scripture? (don’t want to go too far)
Did he tell you your need for repentance and to ask forgiveness or just wait for you to figure it out? How did you demonstrate your repentance in a believable way?

I tell a lot of it in A Love story. RLB has asked that I tell you to feel free to ask him any questions you’d like over there.

As far as what you’ve asked here: he refused to allow an argument to escalate. If I attempted to go off on tangents from what we were initially talking about, he would hang up on me (when he was in Africa). Once home he would either leave the room or go to sleep. He absolutely refused to respond to any leading questions. If he had told me something once, that was all I was going to hear it (absolute refusal to supplicate). I was asking him leading questions about whether or not he had been unfaithful. He had told me he hadn’t. Yet my insecure mind would dream of ways to poke and prod for more information. He was very stern and to the point, “I’ve answered your questions, now get over yourself.” NOT once did he fail my shit test – the one that was begging for him to say, “oh honey, I would never do that to you, I treasure our relationship blah blah blah.”

No, nothing he did was contrary to scripture. It was all quite biblical and the very expression of Agape I needed. You’ll read about that in the post I’ve linked. No, he never told me of my need for repentance or that I needed to ask him for forgiveness. It became very clear to me, once I stopped giving in to fear and started putting my trust in God, that that was what I needed to do. And I did so with a humble heart. For three years I have demonstrated my repentance in a believable way. I submit to him in all things and when I mess up I ask for forgiveness. My mannerisms do not contradict my words (I do not huff, or roll my eyes. My eyes brighten when I see him and I’m attentive to his needs.) In another post Justin the Marine and a very important vow I discuss his physical injury this past year that could have derailed this commitment to God’s commands if it were at all shallow. I know we serve a mighty God. In all we’ve been through this past year, nothing in my heart has been swayed. I am no longer an unsympathetic, judgmental, or questioning wife.

His resolve has remained, though I rarely shit test him anymore (when my mind thinks of something, I stave it off with prayer and recognize its evil source before I open my mouth). I have no doubt that should I do it again, he will respond in the same way he did when he made the change. Prior to his deployment, though we were agreeable in most things, his Delta tendencies would feed my irrational behavior. So what felt like emotional detachment because of how different it was, it was in reality him being the rock he needed to become in all of his relationships.